Official Joker: Folie A Deux Discussion thread

[OreoÀDeux Pronounshe/him]

On 10/9/2024 at 9:13 AM, Adarsh said:

The only thing that matters is that she’s talented and easy to work with. From what we’ve seen, literally every single of her co-stars have praised her. 

The way Joaquin clearly LOVES her. 

[Gabi]

On 10/9/2024 at 4:15 PM, OreoÀDeux said:

The way Joaquin clearly LOVES her. 

That’s very surprising bc Joaquin barely likes anyone  She must be a really nice person to him

[Leptine Pronounshe/him ☂️]

On 10/9/2024 at 10:00 AM, OreoÀDeux said:

It'll be fine buddy. Nothing is being pinned on Gaga's performance by people with multiple functioning braincells and LG7 era is just around the corner.  At least she's still front and center of pop culture 17 years in!

I also had high hopes for this project (as did a lot of people) but:

 

I know, I'm gonna get over it eventually sooner or later but right now I can't help but feel upset about it

[Leptine Pronounshe/him ☂️]

On 10/9/2024 at 10:04 AM, OreoÀDeux said:

Also I've already made this point but I don't buy that "she's going to have trouble getting roles!!11!!" bullcrap for a second. She's 3 for 3 in her performances as an acclaimed actress who brings in the audience and the artistic dedication to all of her projects. She's one of the biggest global superstars of this decade. It honestly wouldn't shock me if she does get that Tarantino gig. 

I don't see why any director wouldn't want to work with her. As people with more knowledge of the film industry than me keep mentioning a lot of actors have had multiple flops in a row (and HoG being a flop is debatable). 

Yeah I am on the same page as well about this.

[MANiCURE1295 Pronounshe/him]

I Realized that I never gave my write up  for JFAD after my first viewing, I’m seeing it with a coworker today and after my second viewing I’ll give my in depth review of the movie! I thought it was a solid 8/10 the first time I saw it and I’m wondering if that rating will change. STAY TUNED!

[MANiCURE1295 Pronounshe/him]

 

[Leptine Pronounshe/him ☂️]

‘Wicked’ having a strong presale is the final nail in the coffin for me.. Not because of Ariana comparisons but because for years I thought it would have been a role perfect for Gaga, the Erivo one.. It saddens me that Gaga is catching strays in this whole situation over a movie that did her dirty in first. 

[ConnorFilm]

On 10/9/2024 at 2:03 PM, Leptine said:

‘Wicked’ having a strong presale is the final nail in the coffin for me.. Not because of Ariana comparisons but because for years I thought it would have been a role perfect for Gaga, the Erivo one.. It saddens me that Gaga is catching strays in this whole situation over a movie that did her dirty in first. 

I was wondering if it would do well because of its musical element. I guess people want musicals, just not DC superhero musicals. Lol. 

[Leptine Pronounshe/him ☂️]

On 10/9/2024 at 9:09 PM, ConnorFilm said:

I was wondering if it would do well because of its musical element. I guess people want musicals, just not DC superhero musicals. Lol. 

Last time I check musicals not being the cup of Tea of general audiences was a common thing in the last years, reason of why lot of trailers have started hiding the music parts, if you watch the trailers of ‘Wicked’, in the first ones at least, they didn’t show any musical stuff in an explicit way.. but at this point what do I know? 

[Emi Pronounshe/him]

Spoiler

 

[CHROMATICON]

I just had a dream of the lead and it was perfect  It was a mixture between Alejandro and Houdini if that makes sense. In the dream I was in my car listening to radio when it suddenly came up out of nowhere and I woke up with my heart beating so fast from the excitement, I checked Instagram to see if she announced or teased and there was nothing. 

It sounded so sultry, femenine and catchy. Her vocals were similar to her cover of Close To You and Smile but with a lot of harmonies in the chorus.

[nydedan PronounsHe/Him]

GG "only" nominate 5 supporting actresses compared to 10 in two leading categories - if she was submitted in lead I believe her chances are actually higher because this year's musical and comedy competition seems empty. 

[OliverDespechao Pronounshe/him]

On 10/9/2024 at 4:09 PM, ConnorFilm said:

I was wondering if it would do well because of its musical element. I guess people want musicals, just not DC superhero musicals. Lol. 

OR jazz musicals *

[MANiCURE1295 Pronounshe/him]

So I just got home and seated from my second viewing, my coworker liked the movie as well! I wasn’t able to get a rating out of her but she did say to me she enjoyed it more and as someone who doesnt like musicals she enjoyed the song selection and was surprised how much she enjoyed the film.

here are my thoughts below with spoilers for specific sections

Phoenix

Spoiler

Phoenix is absolutely incredible in this role. Right from the get go when he comes out of the jail cell you notice how skinny he is and you see how INTO THE ROLE he gets, those damn boney shoulders….

He gets to do what he did in the first movie and more, the tap dance scene in particular is incredible, his facial reactions in particular are amazing during that number. I also think the court room scenes are pretty good work as well. Especially the Gary Puddles interrogation scene. The way he shifts from comedic to serious in that scene is pretty great.

Another stand out scene I thought was “If you Go Away” …. I thought he did a good job of singing with a lot of longing and I felt that his heartbreak was on full display during that number. 

Gaga

Spoiler

What I love about Gaga is her ability to always surprise. You think she’s gonna be CRAZY AND EXTRA but instead she plays this role really reserved and cunning. I love what Gaga is able to do just with her eyes. That first conversation with Arthur is a standout, the look in her eyes when she tells him “I wanted you to shoot his brains out” is truly haunting. Another moment I loved is her applying the Joker makeup, again what she is able to do with just her face really is impressive. I also think her final scene and the jail phone scene with Arthur was really good. I did think Gaga was pretty great in that scene.

Again, I loved her scene of her applying her Harley makeup while she was singing “World on a String” something about it was haunting and I loved the moment where she pulled her lower eyelids down. So creepy haha.

I of course wish they had gone more with her character. I really thought Harley was gonna be the one to kill Joker at the end and the movie would end with her singing “That’s Entertainment” as he bleeds out, but alas. Another CUT.

 

Cinematography

Spoiler

THIS IS A GORGEOUS MOVIE. So many beautiful shots/moments…

1) The opening sequence of Arthur walking through Arkham ending with the one shot of him getting the medicine was nice.

2) The scene of Arthur lighting the cigarette in his cell at night through the peephole was BREATHTAKING.

3) The rooftop sequence opening with Lee’s outline in front of the moon was impeccable. Truly looked amazing

4) Loved a specific shot that begins “The Joker”, the shot that wraps around Arthur under the spotlight and then slowly wraps to the front of his face holding the mic, ohh that was good. Also the shots of Joker with the fun against the neon sign at the end and the close up of Harley dancing crazily with the blood streak across her mouth with the joker smile. All of it looked so good.

5) The elevator shot of Lee was great. Shame we didn’t see the one that was CUT following her full transformation into Harley.

6) various moments that looked great - the smoke kiss scene between Lee & Arthur, Lee’s last scene on the stairs looked really really beautiful. That lighting was just really nice.

9) THE ARTHUR LEE KISS WHEN THE FIRE IS IN THE BACKGROUND DURING ARKHAM BREAKOUT 

8) And of course I could not mention the one shot of the bombing of the courthouse. Amazing. Chefs kiss

theres some I’m missing of that I’ll think of later I’m sure but this is what I could think of right now

Editing

Spoiler

I don’t know much about editing I’ll be honest so I’m not gonna go into too much detail here but what I WILL SAY is that the editing in terms of weaving in the musical moments was really not well done. Probably the worst aspect of the movie in my eyes.

Production Design

Spoiler

I really love the look of Arkham, easily the best spot of this movie. Unfortunate that we leave such a dark gritty setting for the courtroom, while I do think those scenes work to a degree due to their themes they definitely don’t offer much in terms of production design. Except in “The Joker” of course when the lighting and cinematography give it some flair.

I also really like in particular the sets for some of the more fantasy related musical sequences like the cathedral, the Joker & Harley show, & the Rooftop from “Folie a Deux”. I in particular wish that scene was longer because I loved the design and the light up Hotel Arkham sign while they were dancing. So stunning in IMAX.

Overall, disappointing because of the potential, it could’ve and should’ve been much bigger.

Costumes

Spoiler

I did really enjoy Harley’s looks, they were clearly the main draw in terms of new looks for the movie. I felt like her looks felt authentically Harley and how she would dress in that time period. My favorites were the Red Jacket outfit, her black look at the end of the movie and the outfit from the “Harley & Joker”  show where she has the Cher look going on.

I do wish we got to see more of Harley’s red jacket outfit. I felt like we were really missing a stair dance scene in that outfit. That would’ve been iconic.

enjoyed this article and it’s a good read to get more insight..OH AND THE WHITE JOKER SUIT WAS SLEEEK

 

Hair & Makeup

Spoiler

Still obsessed with the LOOK of the Joker makeup in these movies. Ugh there’s just something about it that is visually pleasing to me. I also love the scene of Gaga applying her Harley makeup to “World on a String” …wish we had gotten to see the full Harley transformation. Missed opportunity for sure.

Musical Moments

Spoiler

Slap That Bass/Get Happy/What the World Needs Now - 10/10 I LOVE the opening animated intro. It IMMEDIATELY sets the tone thematically with Arthur vs his shadow but also musically.

For Once in My Life - 5/10 - My issue with this one is a commons issue with some of the musical moments. Some of them that are full on fantasy never let themselves fully go, like for example, this scene was all in his head when he was singing and I wish they had done more with it. Make it a little more out there and add some pizzazz to it. Kinda wish it had been a big dance number with Arthur and the other in-mates honestly 

If My Friends Could See Me Now - 10/10 - This one worked really well, set against a backdrop of Arkham up in flames and then running through the building was cool. I loved the rain kicking in and just the thought of two lunatics breaking out of prison delusional and dancing in the rain was just hilarious to me. Them jumping on the fence at the climax was amazing. Loved it.

Folie a Deux - 8/10 - One of my favorites cause the cinematography and lighting and production design were just incredible. I’m wish it had been lo no re and I wish she they had gone full on waltz/dance scene. I think that could’ve been so amazing. I enjoyed this but it could’ve been better if they had the full length song from Harlequin on the soundtrack.

Bewitched - 7/10 - This is one of the more bone bare musical numbers that I enjoyed. I thought it was done in a really clever way and I really enjoyed how it ended with him singing TO HER through the TV and her breaking the convenience store window.

That’s Entertainment - 0/10 - HOW DARE YOU GET RID OF THE STAIR SCENE WHEN I CATCH YOU TODD PHILLIPS  and then you have the audacity to keep this lame “musical” number instead of the lesbian kiss scene…so f-ing lame.

When You’re Smiling - 7/10 - Simple but well done. I loved how it ends with him going through the courtroom doors and him running his hands through his hair ala his entrance to the Franklin Murray world. Clever. I enjoyed this and the simplicity.

To Love Somebody - 9/10 - One of the only times Gaga really gets to use her voice and my god she sounds so good. I love this musical moment because of how well woven it is into the story. The costumes are great in this scene as well and great acting from Gaga and Phoenix. Only thing keeping it back is I wish it had a little bit more production behind it, maybe a band on stage or something to give something more visual for us during this scene.

Close to You - 7/10 - Not one of my favorites if I’m being honest. I think Gaga looks amazing during this scene and I love how such a beautiful song is being used in such a manipulative way. It do like it in that sense but idk it was just a little TOO simple for me. I actually think I like the scene as a whole and what it means for the characters more than I do the musical moment within the scene if that makes any sense  parts of it work but parts of it don’t

The Joker - 10/10/10/10/10 - THE BEST MUSICAL MOMENT OF FHE MOVIE HANDS DOWN! f-ed up, and honestly, I think this is what I was MOST expecting when this movie’s plot was revealed. This gave me the Bonnie and Clyde vibes that I needed. Phoenix was great in this song and the everything in this scene from the production design, makeup, lighting, editing, was great. Loved the violence and loved Joker shooting the gun.

Gonna Build a Mountain - 10/10 - another amazing musical moment. Everything from Gaga on the piano, to Phoenix Tap dancing and smoking. All of it is so so so good. Another highlight FOR SURE. And another moment Gaga really SINGS. Love it.

I’ve Got the World on a String - 5/10 - I loved this moment for Harley and I loved the dark metaphorical meaning of Harley singing this song at this time, clearly meaning “I love this world and I love this man as long as I have control over who he is”. But I wish they had let Gaga get really messy with it. Such a static scene. They really could’ve had a f-ed yo Harley moment with her chopping all her hair off during this scene. Major missed opportunity.

If You Go Away - 8/10 - I originally didn’t love this moment on my first viewing but I really found it impactful on my second viewing. I could actually feel my heart break a little bit for Arthur. The lyrics are so pretty and I actually think the simplicity in this scene worked. Just a simple message you’re leaving for your loved one hoping they’re listening on the other end 

Various/Final Thoughts

Spoiler

8/10

The Good: Gaga, Phoenix, Cinematography, Score, make up, Costumes and the overarching theme of Arthur vs Joker I thought was really compelling and honestly I’ve been thinking of this theme and parts of this movie all weekend and my rewatch only further emphasized what I already felt. I felt like so many of the PIECES of this movie were so good and it was just execution/directing that could’ve been better. I loved most of the musical moments though I can understand why they didn’t work for everyone

The Bad: Overall Production Design, a weak script and wanted MORE GAGA . I wish more of the musical numbers went further and were BIGGER and better edited into the script.. I would’ve changed the ending to a degree, I honestly probably would’ve had Harley kill Joker and end with her getting arrested as he bleeds out and she sings “That’s Entertainment”.  I think Gaga just f-ing off at the end felt odd and we definitely needed more of her character towards the end of the movie. Not upset about Arthur dying at all but I do feel like if someone was gonna kill him, might as well be Harley and have her embrace being the “new joker” or something”. Totally didn’t mind Arthur giving rise to the “actual Joker”. And I love the commentary about Gaga being a representation of “audiences” and maybe more accurately “toxic fandoms”. Given THIS movie, I think that’s incredibly on the nose.

I could honestly write a lot more about the themes of this movie but I think I’ll leave it here. But I really enjoy how compelling this movie has been and I think the first Joker and this movie are a really good 1-2 punch of seeing how society can and will destroy a mentally ill person. I really do love that commentary and find it really compelling and interesting. And while I could say that I wish the movie was different and I would change SEVERAL things about it. I can’t help but respect and really admire the general messages coming from it. And I think they’re interesting enough that I’ve actually spent some time really thinking about this movie. Which I didn’t expect to do.

 

Edited October 10 by MANiCURE1295

[MANiCURE1295 Pronounshe/him]

another great review for Gaga

[nydedan PronounsHe/Him]

On 10/10/2024 at 9:44 AM, MANiCURE1295 said:

So I just got home and seated from my second viewing, my coworker liked the movie as well! I wasn’t able to get a rating out of her but she did say to me she enjoyed it more and as someone who doesnt like musicals she enjoyed the song selection and was surprised how much she enjoyed the film.

here are my thoughts below with spoilers for specific sections

Phoenix

  Hide contents

Phoenix is absolutely incredible in this role. Right from the get go when he comes out of the jail cell you notice how skinny he is and you see how INTO THE ROLE he gets, those damn boney shoulders….

He gets to do what he did in the first movie and more, the tap dance scene in particular is incredible, his facial reactions in particular are amazing during that number. I also think the court room scenes are pretty good work as well. Especially the Gary Puddles interrogation scene. The way he shifts from comedic to serious in that scene is pretty great.

Another stand out scene I thought was “If you Go Away” …. I thought he did a good job of singing with a lot of longing and I felt that his heartbreak was on full display during that number. 

Gaga

  Hide contents

What I love about Gaga is her ability to always surprise. You think she’s gonna be CRAZY AND EXTRA but instead she plays this role really reserved and cunning. I love what Gaga is able to do just with her eyes. That first conversation with Arthur is a standout, the look in her eyes when she tells him “I wanted you to shoot his brains out” is truly haunting. Another moment I loved is her applying the Joker makeup, again what she is able to do with just her face really is impressive. I also think her final scene and the jail phone scene with Arthur was really good. I did think Gaga was pretty great in that scene.

Again, I loved her scene of her applying her Harley makeup while she was singing “World on a String” something about it was haunting and I loved the moment where she pulled her lower eyelids down. So creepy haha.

I of course wish they had gone more with her character. I really thought Harley was gonna be the one to kill Joker at the end and the movie would end with her singing “That’s Entertainment” as he bleeds out, but alas. Another CUT.

 

Cinematography

  Hide contents

THIS IS A GORGEOUS MOVIE. So many beautiful shots/moments…

1) The opening sequence of Arthur walking through Arkham ending with the one shot of him getting the medicine was nice.

2) The scene of Arthur lighting the cigarette in his cell at night through the peephole was BREATHTAKING.

3) The rooftop sequence opening with Lee’s outline in front of the moon was impeccable. Truly looked amazing

4) Loved a specific shot that begins “The Joker”, the shot that wraps around Arthur under the spotlight and then slowly wraps to the front of his face holding the mic, ohh that was good. Also the shots of Joker with the fun against the neon sign at the end and the close up of Harley dancing crazily with the blood streak across her mouth with the joker smile. All of it looked so good.

5) The elevator shot of Lee was great. Shame we didn’t see the one that was CUT following her full transformation into Harley.

6) various moments that looked great - the smoke kiss scene between Lee & Arthur, Lee’s last scene on the stairs looked really really beautiful. That lighting was just really nice.

9) THE ARTHUR LEE KISS WHEN THE FIRE IS IN THE BACKGROUND DURING ARKHAM BREAKOUT 

8) And of course I could not mention the one shot of the bombing of the courthouse. Amazing. Chefs kiss

theres some I’m missing of that I’ll think of later I’m sure but this is what I could think of right now

Editing

  Reveal hidden contents

I don’t know much about editing I’ll be honest so I’m not gonna go into too much detail here but what I WILL SAY is that the editing in terms of weaving in the musical moments was really not well done. Probably the worst aspect of the movie in my eyes.

Production Design

  Hide contents

I really love the look of Arkham, easily the best spot of this movie. Unfortunate that we leave such a dark gritty setting for the courtroom, while I do think those scenes work to a degree due to their themes they definitely don’t offer much in terms of production design. Except in “The Joker” of course when the lighting and cinematography give it some flair.

I also really like in particular the sets for some of the more fantasy related musical sequences like the cathedral, the Joker & Harley show, & the Rooftop from “Folie a Deux”. I in particular wish that scene was longer because I loved the design and the light up Hotel Arkham sign while they were dancing. So stunning in IMAX.

Overall, disappointing because of the potential, it could’ve and should’ve been much bigger.

Costumes

  Reveal hidden contents

I did really enjoy Harley’s looks, they were clearly the main draw in terms of new looks for the movie. I felt like her looks felt authentically Harley and how she would dress in that time period. My favorites were the Red Jacket outfit, her black look at the end of the movie and the outfit from the “Harley & Joker”  show where she has the Cher look going on.

I do wish we got to see more of Harley’s red jacket outfit. I felt like we were really missing a stair dance scene in that outfit. That would’ve been iconic.

enjoyed this article and it’s a good read to get more insight..OH AND THE WHITE JOKER SUIT WAS SLEEEK

 

Hair & Makeup

  Reveal hidden contents

Still obsessed with the LOOK of the Joker makeup in these movies. Ugh there’s just something about it that is visually pleasing to me. I also love the scene of Gaga applying her Harley makeup to “World on a String” …wish we had gotten to see the full Harley transformation. Missed opportunity for sure.

Musical Moments

  Reveal hidden contents

Slap That Bass/Get Happy/What the World Needs Now - 10/10 I LOVE the opening animated intro. It IMMEDIATELY sets the tone thematically with Arthur vs his shadow but also musically.

For Once in My Life - 5/10 - My issue with this one is a commons issue with some of the musical moments. Some of them that are full on fantasy never let themselves fully go, like for example, this scene was all in his head when he was singing and I wish they had done more with it. Make it a little more out there and add some pizzazz to it. Kinda wish it had been a big dance number with Arthur and the other in-mates honestly 

If My Friends Could See Me Now - 10/10 - This one worked really well, set against a backdrop of Arkham up in flames and then running through the building was cool. I loved the rain kicking in and just the thought of two lunatics breaking out of prison delusional and dancing in the rain was just hilarious to me. Them jumping on the fence at the climax was amazing. Loved it.

Folie a Deux - 8/10 - One of my favorites cause the cinematography and lighting and production design were just incredible. I’m wish it had been lo no re and I wish she they had gone full on waltz/dance scene. I think that could’ve been so amazing. I enjoyed this but it could’ve been better if they had the full length song from Harlequin on the soundtrack.

Bewitched - 7/10 - This is one of the more bone bare musical numbers that I enjoyed. I thought it was done in a really clever way and I really enjoyed how it ended with him singing TO HER through the TV and her breaking the convenience store window.

That’s Entertainment - 0/10 - HOW DARE YOU GET RID OF THE STAIR SCENE WHEN I CATCH YOU TODD PHILLIPS  and then you have the audacity to keep this lame “musical” number instead of the lesbian kiss scene…so f-ing lame.

When You’re Smiling - 7/10 - Simple but well done. I loved how it ends with him going through the courtroom doors and him running his hands through his hair ala his entrance to the Franklin Murray world. Clever. I enjoyed this and the simplicity.

To Love Somebody - 9/10 - One of the only times Gaga really gets to use her voice and my god she sounds so good. I love this musical moment because of how well woven it is into the story. The costumes are great in this scene as well and great acting from Gaga and Phoenix. Only thing keeping it back is I wish it had a little bit more production behind it, maybe a band on stage or something to give something more visual for us during this scene.

Close to You - 7/10 - Not one of my favorites if I’m being honest. I think Gaga looks amazing during this scene and I love how such a beautiful song is being used in such a manipulative way. It do like it in that sense but idk it was just a little TOO simple for me. I actually think I like the scene as a whole and what it means for the characters more than I do the musical moment within the scene if that makes any sense  parts of it work but parts of it don’t

The Joker - 10/10/10/10/10 - THE BEST MUSICAL MOMENT OF FHE MOVIE HANDS DOWN! f-ed up, and honestly, I think this is what I was MOST expecting when this movie’s plot was revealed. This gave me the Bonnie and Clyde vibes that I needed. Phoenix was great in this song and the everything in this scene from the production design, makeup, lighting, editing, was great. Loved the violence and loved Joker shooting the gun.

Gonna Build a Mountain - 10/10 - another amazing musical moment. Everything from Gaga on the piano, to Phoenix Tap dancing and smoking. All of it is so so so good. Another highlight FOR SURE. And another moment Gaga really SINGS. Love it.

I’ve Got the World on a String - 5/10 - I loved this moment for Harley and I loved the dark metaphorical meaning of Harley singing this song at this time, clearly meaning “I love this world and I love this man as long as I have control over who he is”. But I wish they had let Gaga get really messy with it. Such a static scene. They really could’ve had a f-ed yo Harley moment with her chopping all her hair off during this scene. Major missed opportunity.

If You Go Away - 8/10 - I originally didn’t love this moment on my first viewing but I really found it impactful on my second viewing. I could actually feel my heart break a little bit for Arthur. The lyrics are so pretty and I actually think the simplicity in this scene worked. Just a simple message you’re leaving for your loved one hoping they’re listening on the other end 

Various/Final Thoughts

  Hide contents

8/10

The Good: Gaga, Phoenix, Cinematography, Score, make up, Costumes and the overarching theme of Arthur vs Joker I thought was really compelling and honestly I’ve been thinking of this theme and parts of this movie all weekend and my rewatch only further emphasized what I already felt. I felt like so many of the PIECES of this movie were so good and it was just execution/directing that could’ve been better. I loved most of the musical moments though I can understand why they didn’t work for everyone

The Bad: Overall Production Design, a weak script and wanted MORE GAGA . I wish more of the musical numbers went further and were BIGGER and better edited into the script.. I would’ve changed the ending to a degree, I honestly probably would’ve had Harley kill Joker and end with her getting arrested as he bleeds out and she sings “That’s Entertainment”.  I think Gaga just f-ing off at the end felt odd and we definitely needed more of her character towards the end of the movie. Not upset about Arthur dying at all but I do feel like if someone was gonna kill him, might as well be Harley and have her embrace being the “new joker” or something”. Totally didn’t mind Arthur giving rise to the “actual Joker”. And I love the commentary about Gaga being a representation of “audiences” and maybe more accurately “toxic fandoms”. Given THIS movie, I think that’s incredibly on the nose.

I could honestly write a lot more about the themes of this movie but I think I’ll leave it here. But I really enjoy how compelling this movie has been and I think the first Joker and this movie are a really good 1-2 punch of seeing how society can and will destroy a mentally ill person. I really do love that commentary and find it really compelling and interesting. And while I could say that I wish the movie was different and I would change SEVERAL things about it. I can’t help but respect and really admire the general messages coming from it. And I think they’re interesting enough that I’ve actually spent some time really thinking about this movie. Which I didn’t expect to do.

 

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID

Spoiler

this movie is really underappreciated. Overall the technical aspects of the film are very strong, and I truly don't understand why people would think this film is on the floor level bad - the craftmanship alone already ensured the film is "watchable" if not "above average". 

Joaquin got so much hate for his BTS sh*ts but not enough credits for his performance in the film which is strong enough for him to win a second oscar if he hadn't won for the first film. I also love some of his solo songs in the movie - I don't think he's a bad singer (he could definitely sing, just look at "Walk the Line" where he played Johnny Cash), he just used a certain tone and interpreted these songs uniquely and I absolutely love his renditions of The Joker and If You Go Away. Most musical scenes in the film work for me and I kinda wish they were all longer.

And Gaga is mesmerizing. Like you said her facial control and ability to convey emotions in such a subtle way is really impressive. If the movie was not that panned she could easily be a frontrunner in supporting actress with those scenes.

 

Edited October 10 by nydedan

[nydedan PronounsHe/Him]

One reason I adore this film is that

Spoiler

I’ve never been a big fan of the first Joker. I thought it was the weakest among that year’s Best Picture nominees, and it really disturbed me how some incels treated it like a bible. It’s bold and interesting that the sequel seems to take the opposite direction and doesn’t "give people what they want".

Watching JFAD made me reevaluate the first Joker. The jazz music cues, the psychological analysis, and the duality of Arthur and the Joker. I’d say the two movies have always shared the same themes, and JFAD really completes the story, making it a solid sequel.

 

[Gaga Banana]

For us that we enjoy music, Gaga and and maybe some more cultured aspects of Life, we give above average ratings for the film. All the incels going in the film to see some action movie though just have a total meltdown, like I think the problem here is the musical part for them. For me the issue was that the plot doesn’t evolve much if at all, I liked the singing and the cinematography though. You can tell there was a lot of work done to make this movie and for this alone I think it is 6.5/10

 

Edited October 10 by Gaga Banana

[Emi Pronounshe/him]

This is my honest opinion about the movie, after some days of having watched it

Spoiler

The main problem with the film was the misleading promotion of it as the sequel to Joker. When in reality it is the (too rapid) transition from Joker to Arthur, again.
It felt rushed, Lady Gaga was under-used, the ending was depressing, and it didn't have the action and crime intensity fans were hoping for after Joker (2019).

While the acting was solid and the technical aspects were impeccable, the plot was a mess that ultimately hurt the experience (for most fans).

I loved it!

 

[GraceRandolph]