BenG Popster for Sale 41,876 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 5:58 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said: LY: 2B streams. Sorry: 1.7B streams. WDYM: 1.4B streams. Hello: 1.3B streams (her eighth most popular song). Now pull out the WW pure sales numbers bestie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookwhatyoumademedo Popster This Way 962 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 7:57 PM, BenG said: THE METHODOLOGY OMG It does not accurately capture the real-time consumption patterns for sales compared to streaming Because you say so? The chart is designed to give a balanced representation of a song's popularity, factoring in both sales and streaming. "Love Yourself" and "Sorry" had strong streaming figures, but they also had considerable sales figures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Popster for Sale 41,876 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Sale points are just one-off, no way for repeat consumption -> bigger peak Streaming points are repeatable -> flatter graph It's not rocket science Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Popster for Sale 41,876 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 6:02 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said: Because you say so? The chart is designed to give a balanced representation of a song's popularity, factoring in both sales and streaming. "Love Yourself" and "Sorry" had strong streaming figures, but they also had considerable sales figures. And it's balanced because you say so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben PronounsHe/him/his ARTPOPster 1,869 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverDespechao Pronounshe/him A Popster Is Born 17,943 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 time to take a break from this forum I guess... 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Popster for Sale 41,876 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Look at how songs in the streaming era are dominating these records. Keep in mind how many years the Hot 100 has existed. Also, the second pic is with recurrent rules designed to cut short many songs' chart runs. It is a fact that the Hot 100 methodology favours streaming in terms of longevity on the chart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookwhatyoumademedo Popster This Way 962 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 8:01 PM, BenG said: Now pull out the WW pure sales numbers bestie Now you are moving the goal post You were arguing that Hello was bigger than both Sorry and Love Yourself despite the latter's higher placements on the U.S. year-end chart, got clocked with certified units and pivoted to WW sales. On 4/18/2023 at 8:03 PM, BenG said: Sale points are just one-off, no way for repeat consumption -> bigger peak Streaming points are repeatable -> flatter graph It's not rocket science The argument that sales points lead to a bigger peak while streaming points result in a flatter graph does not negate the validity of Billboard's methodology. Instead, it highlights the fact that different consumption patterns can influence the overall success of a song. By considering both sales and streaming, Billboard's charts aim to account for these varying patterns and provide a more balanced representation of a song's popularity. Justin Bieber's singles ("Love Yourself," "Sorry," and "What Do You Mean") had a combination of strong streaming figures, radio airplay, and sales that contributed to their prolonged presence on the charts. Moreover, the weighting of sales, streaming, and radio airplay in Billboard's methodology is not static. The percentages are adjusted over time to reflect the changing landscape of the music industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Popster for Sale 41,876 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 6:12 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said: Now you are moving the goal post You were arguing that Hello was bigger than both Sorry and Love Yourself despite the latter's higher placements on the U.S. year-end chart, got clocked with certified units and pivoted to WW sales. you're the one without a source for Hello's eligible units and pivoted to streams to substantiate. what a fallacy On 4/18/2023 at 6:12 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said: The argument that sales points lead to a bigger peak while streaming points result in a flatter graph does not negate the validity of Billboard's methodology Nobody is is arguing over the validity Billboard is free to choose whatever they want their chart to represent but it does not negate the point that their chosen metric favours streaming in terms of longevity on the chart Classic straw man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben PronounsHe/him/his ARTPOPster 1,869 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Honestly guys just stop please Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Popster for Sale 41,876 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 6:18 PM, IJustWorkHere said: Honestly guys just stop please Do you work here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben PronounsHe/him/his ARTPOPster 1,869 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 1:19 PM, BenG said: Do you work here? Read my username 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben PronounsHe/him/his ARTPOPster 1,869 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 In all seriousness, it's just exhausting seeing people argue so defensively bordering on insults over charts. It's meant to be a discussion, and of course we can poke fun, but the long replies just read like bickering 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanPikus A Popster Is Born 11,579 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 6:52 PM, BenG said: #VerifiedByTidal 🙄 Is disrespecting Tiday only job you do etc etc? 🙄 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookwhatyoumademedo Popster This Way 962 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 8:12 PM, BenG said: Look at how songs in the streaming era are dominating these records. Keep in mind how many years the Hot 100 has existed. Also, the second pic is with recurrent rules designed to cut short many songs' chart runs. It is a fact that the Hot 100 methodology favours streaming in terms of longevity on the chart. It is not a "fact." The methodology reflects the changing industry trends. Streaming has become the primary mode of music consumption for many people, and the charts need to accurately represent the popularity of songs in the current era. Moreover, radio airplay, not iTunes sales, used to be key for maintaining longevity. And most of the songs from that list were also propped up by radio. Blinding Lights spent 26 (!) weeks at #1 on the U.S. radio, which was the main factor behind its insane longevity. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Popster for Sale 41,876 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 6:25 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said: It is not a "fact." The methodology reflects the changing industry trends. Streaming has become the primary mode of music consumption for many people, and the charts need to accurately represent the popularity of songs in the current era. Moreover, radio airplay, not iTunes sales, used to be key for maintaining longevity. And most of the songs from that list were also propped up by radio. Blinding Lights spent 26 (!) weeks at #1 on the U.S. radio, which was the main factor behind its insane longevity. You’re still missing the point. It’s not about the change in consumption mode. It’s about how sales’ consumption pattern is completely absent from the chart and not captured in the methodology at all starting the week after a sale is made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookwhatyoumademedo Popster This Way 962 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 8:29 PM, BenG said: You’re still missing the point. It’s not about the change in consumption mode. It’s about how sales’ consumption pattern is completely absent from the chart and not captured in the methodology at all starting the week after a sale is made. 1) Sales provide an immediate indication of a listener's willingness to pay for a song, streaming data may offer a better reflection of a song's ongoing popularity since it captures the number of times people choose to listen to the song. It also (mostly) eliminates mass buying by stans. 2) As previously mentioned, radio airplay can play a significant role in capturing the repeated consumption of a song after its initial sale. Songs that continue to be popular and receive frequent airplay will contribute to the song's chart position (regardless of sales or streaming numbers). 3) A song's sales figures can continue to contribute to its chart position even after its initial release since new listeners discover the song and choose to purchase it. If the song cannot maintain its sales, it means that it was frontloaded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Popster for Sale 41,876 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 6:52 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said: 1) Sales provide an immediate indication of a listener's willingness to pay for a song, streaming data may offer a better reflection of a song's ongoing popularity since it captures the number of times people choose to listen to the song. It also (mostly) eliminates mass buying by stans. 2) As previously mentioned, radio airplay can play a significant role in capturing the repeated consumption of a song after its initial sale. Songs that continue to be popular and receive frequent airplay will contribute to the song's chart position (regardless of sales or streaming numbers). 3) A song's sales figures can continue to contribute to its chart position even after its initial release since new listeners discover the song and choose to purchase it. If the song cannot maintain its sales, it means that it was frontloaded. 1) Ah so you agree sales and streaming have different representations in the methodology Hence, you concede that songs that skew differently in terms of sales/streams would have different patterns in terms of chart runs 2) Radio was never part of the discussion 3) There is a finite pool of potential buyers, it’s infinite for streamers. Also, buyers listening to a song after a week don’t get to contribute to the chart, unlike streaming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Shadow A Popster Is Born 10,569 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Just random but I haven't bought a song on Itunes since like 2013. I listen to music on Spotify daily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben PronounsHe/him/his ARTPOPster 1,869 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 On 4/18/2023 at 2:00 PM, monketsharona said: Just random but I haven't bought a song on Itunes since like 2013. I listen to music on Spotify daily. I've never bought a song on iTunes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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