Charts Discussion Thread,

[BenG]

On 4/18/2023 at 5:58 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said:

LY: 2B streams. 
Sorry: 1.7B streams. 
WDYM: 1.4B streams. 
Hello: 1.3B streams (her eighth most popular song).

  

Now pull out the WW pure sales numbers bestie

[lookwhatyoumademedo]

On 4/18/2023 at 7:57 PM, BenG said:

THE METHODOLOGY OMG

It does not accurately capture the real-time consumption patterns for sales compared to streaming

Because you say so? The chart is designed to give a balanced representation of a song's popularity, factoring in both sales and streaming. "Love Yourself" and "Sorry" had strong streaming figures, but they also had considerable sales figures.

[BenG]

Sale points are just one-off, no way for repeat consumption -> bigger peak

Streaming points are repeatable -> flatter graph

It's not rocket science

[BenG]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:02 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said:

Because you say so? The chart is designed to give a balanced representation of a song's popularity, factoring in both sales and streaming. "Love Yourself" and "Sorry" had strong streaming figures, but they also had considerable sales figures.

And it's balanced because you say so?

[Ben PronounsHe/him/his]

[OliverDespechao Pronounshe/him]

time to take a break from this forum I guess... 

[BenG]

Look at how songs in the streaming era are dominating these records. Keep in mind how many years the Hot 100 has existed. Also, the second pic is with recurrent rules designed to cut short many songs' chart runs.

It is a fact that the Hot 100 methodology favours streaming in terms of longevity on the chart.

[lookwhatyoumademedo]

On 4/18/2023 at 8:01 PM, BenG said:

Now pull out the WW pure sales numbers bestie

Now you are moving the goal post
You were arguing that Hello was bigger than both Sorry and Love Yourself despite the latter's higher placements on the U.S. year-end chart, got clocked with certified units and pivoted to WW sales.  

On 4/18/2023 at 8:03 PM, BenG said:

Sale points are just one-off, no way for repeat consumption -> bigger peak

Streaming points are repeatable -> flatter graph

It's not rocket science

The argument that sales points lead to a bigger peak while streaming points result in a flatter graph does not negate the validity of Billboard's methodology. Instead, it highlights the fact that different consumption patterns can influence the overall success of a song. By considering both sales and streaming, Billboard's charts aim to account for these varying patterns and provide a more balanced representation of a song's popularity.

Justin Bieber's singles ("Love Yourself," "Sorry," and "What Do You Mean") had a combination of strong streaming figures, radio airplay, and sales that contributed to their prolonged presence on the charts.

Moreover, the weighting of sales, streaming, and radio airplay in Billboard's methodology is not static. The percentages are adjusted over time to reflect the changing landscape of the music industry.  

[BenG]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:12 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said:

Now you are moving the goal post
You were arguing that Hello was bigger than both Sorry and Love Yourself despite the latter's higher placements on the U.S. year-end chart, got clocked with certified units and pivoted to WW sales.  

you're the one without a source for Hello's eligible units and pivoted to streams to substantiate. what a fallacy

On 4/18/2023 at 6:12 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said:

The argument that sales points lead to a bigger peak while streaming points result in a flatter graph does not negate the validity of Billboard's methodology

Nobody is is arguing over the validity

Billboard is free to choose whatever they want their chart to represent but it does not negate the point that their chosen metric favours streaming in terms of longevity on the chart

Classic straw man

[Ben PronounsHe/him/his]

Honestly guys just stop please

[BenG]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:18 PM, IJustWorkHere said:

Honestly guys just stop please

Do you work here?

[Ben PronounsHe/him/his]

On 4/18/2023 at 1:19 PM, BenG said:

Do you work here?

Read my username

[Ben PronounsHe/him/his]

In all seriousness, it's just exhausting seeing people argue so defensively bordering on insults over charts. It's meant to be a discussion, and of course we can poke fun, but the long replies just read like bickering

[PanPikus]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:52 PM, BenG said:

#VerifiedByTidal

🙄 Is disrespecting Tiday only job you do etc etc? 🙄

[lookwhatyoumademedo]

On 4/18/2023 at 8:12 PM, BenG said:

Look at how songs in the streaming era are dominating these records. Keep in mind how many years the Hot 100 has existed. Also, the second pic is with recurrent rules designed to cut short many songs' chart runs.

It is a fact that the Hot 100 methodology favours streaming in terms of longevity on the chart.

It is not a "fact." The methodology reflects the changing industry trends. Streaming has become the primary mode of music consumption for many people, and the charts need to accurately represent the popularity of songs in the current era. Moreover, radio airplay, not iTunes sales, used to be key for maintaining longevity. And most of the songs from that list were also propped up by radio. Blinding Lights spent 26 (!) weeks at #1 on the U.S. radio, which was the main factor behind its insane longevity.   

[BenG]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:25 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said:

It is not a "fact." The methodology reflects the changing industry trends. Streaming has become the primary mode of music consumption for many people, and the charts need to accurately represent the popularity of songs in the current era. Moreover, radio airplay, not iTunes sales, used to be key for maintaining longevity. And most of the songs from that list were also propped up by radio. Blinding Lights spent 26 (!) weeks at #1 on the U.S. radio, which was the main factor behind its insane longevity.   

You’re still missing the point. It’s not about the change in consumption mode. It’s about how sales’ consumption pattern is completely absent from the chart and not captured in the methodology at all starting the week after a sale is made.

[lookwhatyoumademedo]

On 4/18/2023 at 8:29 PM, BenG said:

You’re still missing the point. It’s not about the change in consumption mode. It’s about how sales’ consumption pattern is completely absent from the chart and not captured in the methodology at all starting the week after a sale is made.

1) Sales provide an immediate indication of a listener's willingness to pay for a song, streaming data may offer a better reflection of a song's ongoing popularity since it captures the number of times people choose to listen to the song. It also (mostly) eliminates mass buying by stans. 
2) As previously mentioned, radio airplay can play a significant role in capturing the repeated consumption of a song after its initial sale. Songs that continue to be popular and receive frequent airplay will contribute to the song's chart position (regardless of sales or streaming numbers). 
3) A song's sales figures can continue to contribute to its chart position even after its initial release since new listeners discover the song and choose to purchase it. If the song cannot maintain its sales, it means that it was frontloaded. 
 

[BenG]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:52 PM, lookwhatyoumademedo said:

1) Sales provide an immediate indication of a listener's willingness to pay for a song, streaming data may offer a better reflection of a song's ongoing popularity since it captures the number of times people choose to listen to the song. It also (mostly) eliminates mass buying by stans. 
2) As previously mentioned, radio airplay can play a significant role in capturing the repeated consumption of a song after its initial sale. Songs that continue to be popular and receive frequent airplay will contribute to the song's chart position (regardless of sales or streaming numbers). 
3) A song's sales figures can continue to contribute to its chart position even after its initial release since new listeners discover the song and choose to purchase it. If the song cannot maintain its sales, it means that it was frontloaded. 
 

1) Ah so you agree sales and streaming have different representations in the methodology  Hence, you concede that songs that skew differently in terms of sales/streams would have different patterns in terms of chart runs

2) Radio was never part of the discussion

3) There is a finite pool of potential buyers, it’s infinite for streamers. Also, buyers listening to a song after a week don’t get to contribute to the chart, unlike streaming.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Just random but I haven't bought a song on Itunes since like 2013. I listen to music on Spotify daily.

[Ben PronounsHe/him/his]

On 4/18/2023 at 2:00 PM, monketsharona said:

Just random but I haven't bought a song on Itunes since like 2013. I listen to music on Spotify daily.

I've never bought a song on iTunes